Team is a Pyramid Scheme (According to Forbes)

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Comments

Many of the people researching for information about MLMs look for reputable sources to guide them. I’ve heard numerous times that I’m not a reputable source because I don’t put my name out there. It is pretty easy to refer those people to this article about MLM distributors asking for credentials. They get quiet real quickly when they see their debating point has no merit.

That said, the point about reputable sources isn’t an all-together poor one. In fact, many MonaVie distributors pointed to Oprah and Dr. Oz before they sued MonaVie. MonaVie was quick to settle that case, which incidentally proves that MonaVie is responsible for the actions of its users.

Today’s reputable source comes courtesy of Forbes Magazine. In August of 2008, it did quite an enlightening article about Orrin Woodward and Team. There are a few eye-opening quotes, but here is the biggest bomb the authors drop:

Team is one step ahead of all these juice selling schemes. It is a pyramid atop a pyramid. It is selling motivational aids to help MonaVie vendors move the juice. But wait. If you can’t earn back the $258 you’ve spent on the motivational lectures by selling $39 juice bottles, you could earn it back in another way — getting people to buy $258 motivational lectures. If you’re good, you flog the lectures to other people, who sell them to yet others. Everybody gets rich. Everybody, that is, except the last round of buyers. That’s the theory, anyway. The reality is that a mere 1% of Team members make any money from involvement with the firm.

(The bolding is my emphasis.) That quote quite openly call Orrin Woodward’s Team a pyramid scheme. For those who aren’t aware pyramid schemes are illegal in the United States. I also wanted to call your attention to the last line – where only 1% of people make any money by being involved. Ouch, those are terrible odds. The odds are worse than many raffles… but the prize is that you make some money not a lot of money… and you have to work for that money… and good luck sleeping at night knowing that you broke the law by participating in an illegal pyramid scheme.

The question about breaking the law always come in discussions. Distributors will ask, “If it’s against the law, why hasn’t it been shut down.” There are a lot of answers for that. One is that the FTC isn’t funded well enough to take on the 1,000+ pyramid schemes out there. Another answer is that Bernie Madoff’s pyramid scheme went on for 17 years and no one would listen to those that exposed him either. Anyway, that’s a larger article for another day, let’s get back to the Forbes article…

The Forbes article goes on into the detail of what Team is actually selling. They even got Orrin Woodward to admit that he’s not actually selling tools. Well, not the tools that actually teach you how to be successful. In Orrin Woodward’s own words:

“What I try to give most of all is hope and encouragement.”

The Forbes authors brilliantly explain the cost of this hope, saying, “Hope is an expensive commodity.” The financial details are incredible. The authors give an example of how someone rung up $20,000 in debt buying Team tools, Amway products, and MonaVie juice.

Another great quote from the Forbes authors is:

“Woodward quickly realized how important sales tools are to multilevel marketers. Tools encourage recruits to reject doubters and, if money fails to materialize, to blame themselves and keep trying.”

This is exactly what I found when I wrote about Orrin Woodward and Scams in the past. That’s a worthwhile article to read… Orrin Woodward makes Charlie Sheen seem sane.

Of course this is all part of the Team scam. It is well-known that in MLM’s failure is not a matter of effort, it’s a mathematical certainty. This is what makes Team such a dangerous scam. Team is like the guy in the white van with no windows your mother warned you about. His candy may look good, but its a trap. It’s best to not go talking to strangers.

Other good analysis of this article comes from Amthrax’s Team Scam website. He takes a look at the financial aspects of Team as reported in the Forbes article.

The above article is intended to be accurate at the time of its original posting. MonaVie may change its pricing, product, or other policies at any time without notice.

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Posted by Team Scam on March 22, 2011 in Media.

60 Responses to “Team is a Pyramid Scheme (According to Forbes)”
  1. CULTASTIC_life training orrin woodward and chris brady scam Says:

    TeamScam said, “Team is like the guy in the white van with no windows your mother warned you about. His candy may look good, but its a trap. It’s best to not go talking to strangers.”

    This is such a good description of the team scam business model. People need to beware, they can get Orrin Woodward LIFE training from Barnes and Nobles for pennies compared to what they will spend on system with Team.

  2. Search Engine Terms of the Week « AMTHRAX Says:

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  3. ROSE HARVEY Says:

    Negative and doubting information is free and readily available. True information is scarce and costs $. Many people feel the Team training system and MonaVie are a scam because they were not successful at it. This is sad because they sell themselves just short of success. The training system teaches you to build the business. If you choose not to follow the example you can’t blame the company who produced it. That is like saying the founder of McDonald’s made you fat instead of the hundreds of times you ate meals there.

  4. Team Scam Says:

    Ladies and Gentleman, I give you ROSE HARVEY – the last person on earth who hasn’t heard of a library.

    Given that 99.9% or more people are not successful at Team or MonaVie, it isn’t a surprise that these people would be vocal about it being a scam.

    One thing is certain, the program is designed in such a way that around 99% are guaranteed to fail. It’s built into the compensation plan where you have to recruit more people to actually make money and the world runs out of people. The individual has little ability to impact the basic math. It’s like saying that it is your own fault that you aren’t a movie star – you didn’t try hard enough. There are simply just too few positions available and competition is too difficult to make it realistic for many people.

  5. CULTASTIC_life training orrin woodward and chris brady scam Says:

    Mark Huber, Joe Darkangelo and Chuck Cullen (all PC and Triple 100 Round Table Members) have filed for bankruptcy, yet they still are promoted on stage as if they are making money. How can they continuenly lie to themselves and thousands of people? Check out Amthrax’s latest blog post for the public records for each of these Orrin Woodward LIFE leaders………I MEAN POSERS!

  6. RUFUS Says:

    I don’t think you people understand what a pyramid scheme is. The fact is that pyramid schemes pay their members with money that is supposed to be invested as capital in the company. THAT IS FRAUD!!. Team pays their members with money that is pauid to them by Monavie and LIFE for selling their products. Unless you actually oddited their financial records and have determined that they are fraudulently falsifying their statements, you cannot claim that this is a pyramid scheme. I would suggest you do more research and stop posting negative stuff like this after reading ONE article that was based on sombodie’s opinion. This is not the first time I have stumbled upon one of your websites falsly accusing these companies. Also, I hope you do realise that ALL MLM companies are under severe scruteny from the Odditer General. Therefore, if this is actually a Ponzi Scheme, why have they not been exposed?

  7. Team Scam Says:

    Rufus,

    It’s not just a random person’s opinion, it’s printed in Forbes. If you can get your opinion printed in Forbes, you are generally somewhat reputable – especially in a case like this where this no bias on the part of the author.

    When the article was created LIFE didn’t exist and money wasn’t made solely by selling MonaVie products – there were a lot of sales of team “tools” too. I haven’t had the time to research LIFE in detail yet, but I sure hope that’s not a rebranding of TEAM – just another set of “tools” and you are calling that separate from TEAM. That would be like some kind of Enron shell company game. Again, I want to emphasize that I haven’t spent the time to learn about the LIFE – TEAM relationship in detail, but on the surface that’s what it appears to me. There are a lot more people in the discussion here who are paying more attention to LIFE than myself.

    There is no such thing as an Odditer General. However, the answer to your question is is provided here in great detail. It shouldn’t be discussed on this site because it only conflates the issue around TEAM.

  8. Gerry Says:

    Wow, I can beleive all the negitive comments I have read about TEAM. How come you don’t comment on the filth on our TV’s, the hunger in our country, the lack of character with our government leaders. It seem that we indorse violence and idlelize crooked, deceitful, and lying politicians who steal our money. We take God out of our schools, Gov’t buildings etc.. We allow foreigners to come over here and use our own laws to change “our” way of life and to change this country. I don’t hear anyone complaining about that ! I could go on, and on. The point is, TEAM provides Good information to help people with their lives. It has a positive impact in everyone’s life if you give it a chance. I would rather spend $50 a month on material to help me live a positive, healthy life then to watch all the negitivety and violence on TV and listen to politicians bash each other and tear each other down. That to me has no merit and lacks character. TEAM is trying to do something good, give them a chance….

  9. Team Scam Says:

    Gerry,

    I don’t see how it isn’t clear that one would devote time to exposing this scam that has ruined lives. It’s a good try to pass the buck to other problems, but some of them are difficult to solve. For example, solving hunger in our country requires billions of dollars. Stopping Orrin Woodward and TEAM from scamming people just requires educating people.

    The rest of your comment, especially about foreigners (who most Americans are), shows that you really lack the critical thinking skills to see that TEAM is a scam.

  10. Gerry Says:

    I really don’t think he is ruining lives at all. The information provided is uplifting and very positive. So, let me ask you…what gives you the impression that it is a scam? Have you listen to the material (It’s really good, you know).
    It just seems that people who try to do good in this country are the ones who get thrown to the wolves. I don’t thinks it’s a scam, but you have your opinion, but don’t knock anyone who is trying to do a good thing in this country.. I have been to meetings and they have always lead in prayer, they play the National Anthem, and have always recogzied our men and women of the armed forces. I have been involved with TEAM for about 5 months and my life has changed for the better. I feel great and people around me have noticed a big change. I can say that I am pretty happy.

  11. Former Round Table Says:

    Gerry,
    We are on this site to relate our own personal experiences with Team, not to solve all the problems of the world. You are right that Team does seem to offer a positive, uplifting experience. If all you want to do is read their books and listen to their CDs, great.

    I was with Team for over 13 years, best friends with Orrin and Laurie Woodward, Round Table member, frequent seminar and open meeting speaker, and close personal friends with many of the PC. The problems begin when you believe that Team can be a viable business for you. It is definitely a great business for Orrin, but everyone else is at his mercy. And take it from one who knows–Orrin is NOT anything like the person he pretends to be. He is a lying, manipulative, scheming snake. If Team was such a great business, I would still be involved. But I know too much about Orrin, other PC members, and their business methods.

    If you carefully read the Policies and Procedures of Team and Life, you should be able to see the true character of these people.

  12. Gerry Says:

    I am sorry that you had a bad experience. All I can tell you that our experience had been good so far. We are not motivated by the money you can make, but by the uplifting material they provide; being involved and being around the TEAM motivates you to read etc.. It sound as though there was a personality clash between you and Orrin and I am sorry that happened. Since you were round table, are you still receiving an income from TEAM?

  13. webelieved Says:

    Gerry you really need to read http://www.amthrax.wordpress.com

    There are many leaders who did years of work and were making a lot of money and left team anb it has nothing to do with personality clashes as you say.Orrin is not who you think he is. Orrin has taken big leaders residual incomes promised to them for years! So what looks good on the outside is rotten on the inside. Do you want to bring people into a lie? I would hope not. Do yourself a favor and read the new LIFE policies and procedures, before you or someone you care about are owned for life. Good luck to you.

  14. webelieved Says:

    Gerry you are talking to people who were on stage doing the prayers! Seriously you are being decieved in a fake environment and the higher up you get the uglier it gets. The more control and deception. We know, been there done that. The environment and information is being controlled just like in a cult. No one talks about anything in public if it is percieved negative and they are taught to do so. They hide real life things and then praise people, and make a happy happy environment for the new guy on purpose.What most don’t know is most of the people in the room have been sitting there week after week for years. They are going in debt not making a profit like they were baited into the group with. Your upline is giving you cds and books to match your situation and back up the team adgenda with propaganda. You will be sucked in and become dependent on them and their thinking. Slowly you won’t be able to think objectively for yourself. They don’t want leaders they want followers.Followers have been trained how to manipulate prospects in the name of making a difference. Orrin has been doing this for like 14 years at least and is from Amway. He stole all his and others teams into MV and now life. He and PC got slapped with a 25 million judgement for it. Did you know that?
    You will end up damaging a lot of people and lose a lot of friends if you continue. Ultimately the higher up you go you will lose yourself. I feel sorry for anyone in this group. I believed in it just like you do at one time, enough to do years worth of work and have it stolen by the PC themselves, for no reason. It is messed up. Listen to former Round table he is telling you the truth. Even Orrin’s own pastor and mentor for over a decade is no longer with him or team. That should say A LOT!

  15. Holly Says:

    I wholeheartedly agree with Gerry! I have listened to dozens of CDS and only have wonderful things to say about the information I’m receiving. I would be passionate about LIFE even if I never made a dime because the information is TRUTH that this country needs. I think you are outnumbered in your opinion and instead of spreading negativity how about you make a positive impact on the world with your own abilities instead of trying to bring down others?

  16. Gerry Says:

    Thank you Holly for your support. This country is so full of haters, liers, and cheaters and no one says anything about them…we can sometimes respect and idelize and often feel sorry for them, But, when some people like Orrin or that football player Tebow bring good to this country, people tend to do all they can to tear them apart and decredit their names. Like I said it’s not about the money that can be made, it the material that they provide. It’s good stuff!
    I also sell Avon, is that bad too?

  17. webelieved Says:

    Gerry and Holly you need to go read what Orrin and George Guzzardo did to John and Melanie Morgan, they probably know Orrin better than you do. http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/a-downlines-perspective-and-request-for-john-and-melanie-morgan/

    Orrin has been an anonymous blogger named Qrush. Pretty disturbing stuff there. You don’t know your leader as well as you think. You can get the books at the library, for free. Good luck, hope you figure it out before it’s too late.

  18. webelieved Says:

    By the way it is against LIFE Teams policies and procedures for you to be commenting on this blog, and it says in there they can take your teams away whenever they want with no cause……. that should make you wonder. Why would any business write that in there policies. Also your family cannot say anything about the business or they can take your teams. Talk about messed up and control freaks.

  19. webelieved Says:

    Team and Orrin himself stole our and many other leaders’ teams and our money. Passive residual ongoing,pipeline for building communities promised for years.
    So what you are saying is it doesn’t matter you will follow a theif because he sells you good books? WOW. Tell a rape victim they are negative, good luck with that one. Go read http://www.amthrax.wordpress.com
    you will get a real education there.

  20. Katie Marie Says:

    @ROSE HARVEY, I agree 100% with you.

    And if people who are involved with Life Team MonaVie are getting rich, making friends, building communities, and changing not only their lives but others lives positivly, I don’t think that is a bad thing.. Why would it be a Scam to make other people happy. If you were involved with this business and YOU didn’t do good and dropped out theres no need to talk bad about the business. There are tones of people who are doing great in this business.
    Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.

  21. Team Scam Says:

    Yes, Katie Marie, if that were happening that wouldn’t be a bad thing.

    However, with Life/Team/MonaVie, people aren’t getting rich, they are losing a lot of money, their “friends” drop them as soon as they aren’t part of the scam, doctors have determined that “the community” is essentially the same as a cult (don’t forget about the Jonestown community), and certainly aren’t living lives positively if they are introducing others into this life.

    Too bad you didn’t bring up the part about breaking up marriages.

    As for not believing everything you read on the Internet, it was printed in Forbes, a reputable magazine.

  22. Katie Marie Says:

    Okaay, well since your are so against Life Team MonaVie then just keep it to your self. there are others who are VERY successfull in this business including me.
    I am done commenting on this site now, because I know the truth and what you are saying is NOT the truth.
    I enjoy team, and it has brought mine and MANY others marriges closer together. So you just because “Forbs” says it’s a scam doesn’t mean it is.
    “Schools teach you how to work for money, not how to make money work for you” – Robert Kiyosaki… Anywho….
    Bye..

  23. webelieved Says:

    Katie- You have obviously not read this whole site or http://www.amthrax.wordpress.com
    Perhaps too much truth for you to take? Team and Orrin Woodward specifically took my teams and money after years and years of work! Also they have stolen others money as well. I was a Round Table member, are you?

    The leadership behind the scenes do not behave the way they seem from stage, period. But hey if you want to waste years of your life and have it all stolen, hey go ahead.

  24. webelieved Says:

    Funny you Katie, you are so confident you know the truth? Did you know Orrin Woodwards pastor for years wants nothing to do with him? He was Orrin’s mentor for years up to a few years ago. I would bet you have heard of him. He is a great man of God, Pastor Dickie and he was on hundreds of team cds. Did you call him and ask if he is with Team? Did you call Matt Abraham, Don Freeze or how about the Morgans who Orrin Woodward and George Guzzardo screwed after more than a decade of work? Did you know the Hawkins recieved special deals behind the scenes? Teams were secretly given to them, were you told that from stage? I bet not.

    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/a-downlines-perspective-and-request-for-john-and-melanie-morgan/

  25. webelieved Says:

    Guess what Katie, I don’t have to keep my opinion to myself. It is a free country where information is allowed to flow freely.
    Unlike the Team environment where information is controlled and you are brainwashed to not listen to, read or evaluate any critical opinions of the group.
    You my friend just walked into a neighborhood watch!
    :)

  26. webelieved Says:

    Anyone reading this site, and looking into Life,do yourself a favor and read the whole policies and procedures for LIFE Team. Pretty scary how much control Orrin wants to have over you and your family, for life. In or out of the group. It tells a lot about the group. It is too bad most prospects will not read it before they sign it.
    A new article came out in the Salt Lake Tribune a few days ago on Monavie, Orrin’s former great business he was promoting, it states Orrin was given 3 million dollars to take his group into Monavie! He came from Amway to Monavie and then started Life. That is the truth. He also lost most of his group after he came into Monavie, he used to have @20,000 attending major conventions in 2007. If you want to know real truth about this group go to http://www.amthrax.wordpress.com and read the LIFE Primer and learn from people that were leaders on Team,close to Orrin Woodward, and are gone from him and his business. The information will help you make an informed decision, viewing both sides of the coin. Good luck!

  27. webelieved Says:

    Isn’t it amazing how they all use the same distraction “you didn’t do the work, don’t be negative” the funny part is I did do the work, I have the teams, the witnesses,the calenders,and the 1099′s to prove it! So do others. The comments are disturbing to me because for years I believed the same crap about critics, therefore criticism of the leadership or group had no credibility.(At the time their were critics of Amway not Team, and there sure wasn’t this kind of info on Orrin and co.) Slowly they will only be recieve feedback from supporters, all the rest they will push to the side because they were indoctrinated to do it, right from the begining. A cd is used called “hadling objections” and others. Prospects will have cds hand picked for them that relate specifically to their situation or personality and they will be led slowly into the group. They will not be told all that will be expected of them when they are a leader. They will be immersed in a nicey nicy fake environment, where people were taught to never speak negative even if it is the truth, especially to prospects or downline. They will hear speakers making fun of critics at the seminars they attend.
    Funny I can tell what Orrin and others are saying on stage by what commenters come back and say. Another lie is we are from a competing company, that one is laughable! LOL!I thought they all were Christian leaders, I thought they weren’t supposed to lie or be negative? What hypocrisy. All this rhetoric kept me trapped in the group for years killing myself to later have all my work stolen.

    Thanks Teamscam for helping open people’s eyes.

    *All my comments on this site are my opinions from years of experience with Team, Orrin Woodward and Co.

  28. Jake Says:

    Katie:

    Robert Kiyosaki launched his book career by placing his first book – “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” in a gas station and coincidentally an Amway Diamond walked in and bought his book. The Amway diamond then gave Roberts book to Dexter Yager and Yager invited Robert to speak at a major function in Boston, MA on August 29th, 1998.

    You see, you can still ‘OWN’ a business, an S-Type business and be a slave to the clock and especially your health. One false truth about Robert Kiyosaki’s cash-flow quadrant is that MLM’s are truly S Type businesses, NOT B type businesses. How would Robert know if he hasn’t built TEAM or AMWAY?? He was sold on the Amway tool kingpins.

    Good luck to you on TEAM, you’ll sincerely need it.

  29. Team Scam Says:

    Jake,

    That’s the first time I’ve heard the specific connection about Kiyosaki and Amway. I knew they were connected, but I didn’t realize it was a chance gas station thing.

  30. Team Scam Says:

    Oh and the point about MLM being an S-type business? I would say that it straddles the line between S and E. I’m using the explanation at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yywKO_xqXIY

    Why it is an S

    It has characteristics of a small business. You have to buy your own supplies (i.e. “tools”) and you work your own hours doing as much or as little as you want.

    Why it is an E

    Though it doesn’t seem it, you are really an employee of the MLM company. They can fire you (terminate your business) at any time, just like an E. Who can fire and S, B, or I? No one. Additionally, the MLM company strictly dictates how you run your business. They restrict your avenues of selling the product (most won’t let you sell on Ebay). They control the products that you have at your disposal to sell. (Most prohibit you from selling a product from another MLM.)

    Why it is not a B

    That video explained that B’s are Microsoft and other Fortune 500 companies. Clearly that’s not an MLM distributor. No MLM distributor has had an IPO. You’ll note that MLM companies have gone public. Those could be considered B’s. If you were the CEO of MonaVie you’d be in that B quadrant. Also as explained above, B’s can’t be fired and they can take any direction with products and/or distribution that the law allows… this is not true for MLM distributors.

    To back up Jake’s story, if you read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, there’s not one mention about MLMs as a potential good business. Why do you think Kiyosaki is supporting them now? Because he can sell more of his books to distributors. This is Kiyosaki working his own “S” business. If you actually read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, he’d be against most MLMs because they have an autoship, which as he defines it, a liability to be avoided.

  31. webelieved Says:

    Great points! MLM is FAR from a b-type business. Look at Team they promote it as a B type business yet all the PC are STILL WORKING nights and weekends! Also it can be stolen, taken whenever they want for whatever reason. You own nothing. It is a JOB that most people pay to have. It’s like paying your boss to work for him, a huge liability in time and money.

  32. Team Scam Says:

    I wrote a more complete response to the Kiyosaki-MLM experience as well as addressing his cash flow quadrant as it applies to MLM:

    Robert Kiyosaki and Multi-Level Marketing Exposed!

  33. webelieved Says:

    Teamscam- Have you read Business School by Kiyosaki? It is directly promoting mlm if i remember correctly. I would guess a lot of his book sales come from selling to mlms and their training companies.

  34. Finklea Says:

    Through a friend, I signed up with Team in 2008, allured by promises to own my own business and become a “leader”. So far, little has happened.

    My disappointment came not from it being a pyramid, but rather empty promises of getting help from my upline. Shortly after joining, I moved 1000 miles b/c of my job and only heard from my sponser and other upline people once every 6 months, despite me sending them emails and phone messages asking for direction and help as to how to work this business. I had no clue what to do and dug into the CD’s, website and books to find out what to say to people, what the sales pitch is and just general sales tactics. I got nowhere. When my sponser or upline people did call, they just referred me to some CD’s that ended up being crappy book summaries and full of praise for other “leaders”. I was very disappointed and felt abandoned. They encouraged me to go to the conferences (I now live where there are no weekly meetings) and I got nothing out of them except travel expenses and bitterness toward the “leaders” who gave travel logs to other countries with other “leaders” and how awesome it is to not have to worry about money. I attended all the meetings at these conferences until the early hours. They apparently have no regard for those of us who still need to wake up on Monday to go to our jobs.

    I wanted this to work. I was told by my sponser and other people in my upline that they would work closely with me and be there by my side to “do the business”. I have heard very little from them, even after leaving them voice messages and emails on a daily basis. Now they when they call it’s only to sell me more CD’s, books and tickets to the meetings.

    The CD’s are worthless. They basically have people praising other “leaders”, talking about going on some trip with other TEAM members, talking about all the money they make and what they bought, then it goes into a really bad synopsis of some book they read. I had to fast forward through the first half of the CDs b/c I was trying to get something substantial out of them and needed to skip the travel log.

    Other TEAM members I know laugh at education. I have an MBA and they are quick to point out how some of their top “leaders” have advanced degrees and are making tons of money. These people I know are spending all of their extra money on books, CDs and travel expenses, and spend their extra time getting people to buy into their program.

    I don’t understand. Every business should have a business plan, a sales training system and an open disclosure on their compensation plan, right? I found no clear plan and zero sales training.

  35. webelieved Says:

    Finklea- Great comments. I am sorry for the money and time you lost. I was a Round Table on team and will agree with you 100%. It is about selling more cds, books and tickets. It is a glorified social club that uses thought reform and deception in my opinion. A structure to move money from the masses to the few. Very few.

  36. webelieved Says:

    I wish I had an MBA,it would’ve served me much better than Team. :)

  37. webelieved Says:

    p.s. You will find a group of ex-team members commenting on http://www.amthrax.wordpress.com
    Bankruptcies of team leaders, Guzzardos strategic forclosure, and what they did to the Morgan’s and the Raatz. Some commenters seem to be former triple 100′s, former Round Table, etc. I am sure they would love to hear your story.

  38. Finklea Says:

    Oddly, my problem with TEAM was the exact opposite of everyone’s – no one EVER got back to me to help me “do the business”. I waited many times by the phone and email to hear back on how to approach people and what to say. I didn’t spend all that much money, b/c no one was getting me to buy too much. They always gave me CDs to listen to that didn’t tell me anything about the pay structure. I went to meetings with the idea that I was going to find out how to do this business and only heard praise of leaders and really horrible book reports.

  39. webelieved Says:

    Finklea- Amthrax has a post on the new LIFE comp plan and Policies and Procedures. Check it out! You make me laugh, you are the person a leader would spend years looking for, and they won’t call you back?
    :)

  40. K.C. Wheeler Says:

    Why don’t u show who you are?
    Are you one of those who HAVE to be sworn to secrecy?
    I don’t know you and you dont know me…but u are quoting a forbes magazine that is almost 4 years out of print… obviously written by people who REALLY didn’t know what they were talking about.
    Since the forbes article almost 4 years ago… Orrin has been given a few awards…the most current; 1/2012; the IAB Leadership award. Plus a few other business and financial magazines have only good things to say.
    My suggestion is, get a life and go campaign for your favorite pres candidate. they could use your support.

  41. Team Scam Says:

    K.C. Wheeler,

    If you do a little research you’ll find out who I am and why I don’t show who I am. It’s for reasons mostly unrelated to MLM. In any event, it isn’t really important who I am. Nothing has significantly changed since the Forbes article. I mean I know that TEAM has moved from MonaVie to LIFE, but it’s not like the pyramid scheme structure changed. Orrin just wanted to call it another name because MonaVie cut him out with their own tools. So Orrin just piled on another layer of trying to convince people that he’s trying to help them. It isn’t anything new.

    What is the IAB? It doesn’t look like any of the top 10 results for “IAB” on Google. Oh it turns out that that the IAB you are talking about is a scam organization. You probably just heard that Orrin got an award from IAB and thought it meant something, when it means less than a little league trophy.

    What are the business and financial magazines that you see Orrin Woodward in? I have only found the Forbes article calling TEAM a pyramid scheme. Please give us details on more.

  42. Dorothy Says:

    Hey TeamScam -

    I’ve been reading a lot of the comments and must say while there are many comments that I don’t agree with, there are some that made valid points.

    Have you ever attempted to contact Orrin Woodward directly to get his perspective on any of this? The Internet affords a us a tremendous medium for open communication as you already know.

    I ready your about page on Juicescam.com and was impressed with your ability to communicate clearly. No information is truly objective in my opinion so one has to take both the positive and the negative, formulate their thoughts/opinions and take action accordingly.

    When people are way into one side of the spectrum their intelligence tends to go down… :-/

    If this is simply a “hate” site I wouldn’t even waste time here, but you seem to be a reasonable person yet the comments on this site seem filled with overabundance of emotions and hatred.

    I wonder what the true intention is to keep the site running since you have no affiliation with the industry at all. Just a hobby? Or do you consider yourself a vigilante of sorts?

  43. Matt Says:

    My in-laws are currently involved with team 100%. It started with my brother-in-law and his wife who are missionaries. He had already called me and wanted to “pitch” me. Common sense kicked in and I said no. Fast forward a few weeks to a family get together. They sat down with everyone, including us. I thought it was going to be a missionary update since we were supporting them at the time. Boy was I wrong. They pitched us. I sat there for over an hour in pure rage, but hiding it out of politeness. I was so mad! I already said no, then you’re going to pitch us anyway? Needless to say, the rest of my wife’s family, minus one brother, were hooked. Family is one of the f’s on their ship wheel or whatever lol. My sister-in-law didn’t come to my wife’s baby shower because they went on some yacht team trip for reaching a certain level. They didn’t even take their kids. They left their 4 kids, including a newborn, with my wife’s parents so they could go. Where’s the family in that? You miss a baby shower for your sister-in-law and dump your kids to go ride a boat? When you’re missionaries? What a joke! And guess what happened when my wife and I had to move from our apartment to our house? It happened to fall on a weekend which was their “quarterly” or whatever brainwashing seminar. So none of her family was available to help. I saw a ticket for that by the way. I think it was 35 dollars a ticket. Not including travel, food, lodging. And kids over the age of 12 cannot attend! So guess who gets asked to babysit kids for an entire weekend 4 times a year? That’s right! We do. I could go on and on. Ya i’m complaining and pointing fingers but hey, that’s my right in this country lol. Avoid team. Yes it is like a cult and no you will not get rich by sitting at home doing nothing. You will become broke by going out and busting your butt doing everything possible. I do feel sorry for my family though. It really does seem like they have been brain-washed.

  44. Team Scam Says:

    Dorothy,

    Orrin Woodward is free to comment on this site if he chooses to. People who have on commented on this site said they have tried to reach to him, and they found that their comments weren’t published.

    I don’t believe that “no information is truly objective.” If that’s your opinion you are welcome to it, but it is like having the opinion that the world is flat – the opinion is frankly wrong. Need proof? Here’s some information, “The Earth is round.” Isn’t that truly objective? Of course it is.

    It is pretty hard to see any positive to a pyramid scheme. I didn’t see too many people pointing out the positive of Bernie Madoff’s scheme. Perhaps we shouldn’t assume that everything has a positive side to look at. I say this knowing that some people made money from Madoff’s scheme, it’s just that many, many more lost a lot more money… a little like TEAM.

    Intelligence is not related one’s stance on something. That’s a good attempt at logic, except that it isn’t based on anything.

    I can’t control the comments that are here. If people have a lot of emotion and hatred, it’s probably because Team and/or Orrin Woodward invoked them by seriously harming them through the scam. The number of comments and the emotions involved should tell you that it is a serious scam. People wouldn’t waste their time otherwise.

    As for why I’m running the site, I like to educate people so that they can avoid being victims of the scam like the others before them. Helping people is something that I like to do. Why do you leave a comment asking to look on the positive side of what Forbes says is a pyramid scheme? I wonder what your intention is.

  45. webelieved Says:

    Matt- I am so sorry for what you are going through. I was in team for years and was brainwashed to believe their lies. I would recommend you read the book Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan to see what you are dealing with. Also check out his website
    http://www.freedomofmind.com Team is listed as a group.

  46. webelieved Says:

    Matt also I would google amthrax’s site about Team and Orrin Woodward. There are a lot of ex leaders commenting on that site about their experiences with Orrin Woodward and Team. You will get a lot of support and info there to help your family.Good Luck. Let us know if you comment over there. Welcome! You can help your family if you study enough.

  47. webelieved Says:

    Anyone wonder if this is the same Dorothy that seems to blow with the wind? The same Dorothy who blamed the Team for being husbandless, shared a lot of information about team on Juicescam site and Amthrax site, was anti-Team and Orrin Woodward and then apparantly asked Amthrax to remove all of her comments from his site? Wonder if this is the same Dorothy?
    Maybe she joined LIFE and got her husband back? Makes you wonder did she ask juicescam to erase her comments too?

    IF this is the same Dorothy, and it sounds the same, then she is definitley blowing with the wind!
    I wouldn’t take a thing she says as the truth as it is obvious she cannot decide what side of the fence she is on!
    Just sayin…..

  48. webelieved Says:

    Teamscam, maybe you want to check ip address?

  49. webelieved Says:

    If it is the same Dorothy, I hope she did get her husband back if that is what she wanted, but I wouldn’t join LIEF, change my values, take back my comments, or change my beliefs to do it.

  50. Matt Says:

    Also, my career is as a corrections officer. My mother in law told me that I was involved in a pyramid scheme, because my supervisors make more money than me. I’ll leave it at that, with a smile on my face :)

  51. webelieved Says:

    Well tell them, they will never make more money than Orrin, and he put in his LIEF policies he can take it any time he wants for any reason! He even wants to control her family! Maybe she should read the Policies and Procedures in lief and amthrax and juicescams websites. Does she know about all the leaders filing bankruptcy, or Guzzardo a PC defaulting on his loan on his luxury property as recent as last summer? I would be she knows none of it!

  52. webelieved Says:

    They are taught to believe whatever this clown tells them and to stay off negative sites. Anything negative is bad, even if it is the truth. I believe Team is a destructive cult using mind control, just my opinion after studying cults. Check out Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan. Great Book, or Merchants of Deception, by Eric Schriebler, and ebook, you can get for free. Team operates very similarly in its hierarchy and they all started in Amway. Hope your mother in law keeps her day job.

  53. webelieved Says:

    By the way we were involved with Team for years and Power Players, Round Table members etc. LOts of Orrin’s big leaders have left him and went back to work. That should tell her something isn’t right in Team LALA Land.

  54. wow look at this Says:

    hmm. orrin just won the IAB award what negatvie thing are we going to say this time, oh wait were too busy blogging about some one else than changing are own lives =]

  55. Team Scam Says:

    Wow, looks like the IAB is a made-up award by the industry to make Orrin and other scammers look relevant: http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/12/27/arthur-carmazzi-the-truth-behind-leadershipgurus-net-orrin-woodward-and-chris-brady/

  56. Matt Says:

    IAB award lol

  57. webelieved Says:

    Haha that is funny, we all know that followers are asked to vote for any vain award Orrin wants to get. lol! What a joke!

  58. ExAmbot Says:

    @the pin head at May 28th, 2012 at 4:57 am “wow look at this”

    We don’t have to find anything negative to say about Orrin “winning” a dubious clown award, isn’t that enough in itself?

    My “negative” to you – for voting in a dubious “award” you win you a gadfly clown pawn award.

    BTW Why do all MLMers think the rest of us our lives don’t change because we are not fodder in a pyramid scam? Get your heads out of your backsides you might catch a glimpse of how your lives are regressing by forking over your cash up the pyramids!!!! But if that is what turns you on hey keep doing what you are doing.

  59. Speak Your Truth Says:

    Exambot~

    I am still not sure what is funnier the comments from “wow look at this” or your comments back. I about fell off the chair laughing. Thanks for the laughs :)

  60. Angel Says:

    Why is there nothing being said about the Holy Christian angle they have? I seems to me that they came up with this whole “you are helping people” angle to get all the reborns in on the game. I was talked into a couple of their motivational speaker meetings and holy bible thumpin’! More then half of the content of these speeches was biblical references, scriptures galore. I am not a christian and I told my friend and she said ‘oh no, it is history’. Yet there was hootin’ ‘n’ hollerin’ for every mention of the bible. It was like one of the old time revivals minus the tent

 
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